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Post by Cyan on Jul 24, 2021 20:35:18 GMT
Had a thought on alternative WW2 soviet stance. Testing.
Red glove as "is better for russia" blue as not.
In short. Do not advance west of ML treaty, take danzig/könisberg, Stop at polish border and bargain with allies for PUBLIC and legal control of E europe in exchange for joining, which they likely wont give, so let the allies waste 1 million fatalities for a region that wont be anything but trouble for russia if they take it. Once Warsaw uprising begins make a "volunteer" army and put it opposite warsaw with orders to help the polaks. Volunteers and polish/e-european soldiers only. Once Baltic-Balkan at ML-Danzig is taken start demobilization and give axis chancee to move units west forcing the west to bleed instead of russians.
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Post by Cyan on Jul 24, 2021 20:35:25 GMT
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Post by Cyan on Jul 24, 2021 20:49:56 GMT
Ok is worse for russia, is it better for the world non the less. Blue as yes.
Idea is to avoid occupation of E europe by a power the locals hate and only give it its natural cores and thus a chance to compete with the US on "equally imperialist" stance and HOPEFULLY spawn a multipolar world.
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Post by Cyan on Jul 24, 2021 21:32:55 GMT
Ok, next logical. Could the western allies still dominate germany at that junction. Thin as yes.
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Post by Cyan on Jul 24, 2021 22:47:12 GMT
Okay so if Soviets get to ML border + Danzig/prussia and dig in and Germany moves most of its army west and they find a "cold peace" US can not push through germany, thats 3 attempts in a row and failure.
That would be bad.
So how about this. Soviet push 50-200km inward from ML borders and start training locals to fight the germans and then as situation is good withdraw to ML border. Still demob and get left with a huge stockpile of semimodern weapons.
Thin guy as "allies".
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Post by Cyan on Jul 24, 2021 22:47:23 GMT
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Post by Cyan on Jul 24, 2021 23:23:45 GMT
Ok so even with that the allies lose.
Next attempt.
1943 during battle of Kurks, West and Germans agree to a peace.
1. Soviets gain Konis to Danzig + baltics + ML east of poland + Karelia but not Petsamo + romanian ML border.
2. Soviets, at some point, resume trade.
3. Germans release all puppets and they hold free election under UN forces.
4. Germans lose Alsac claims and population frenchified, also lose "that one province" next to alsac.
5. Germans lose benelux border where applicable.
6. Germans lose Slewig to Danish.
7. Austria and Czes gain independec and can hold referendum on joining germany.
8. Germany pays war rep.
9. No annexation or occupation of germany.
Gane as "outline would work."
This would reduce WW2 fatalities to 40m from 70m and mostly sidestep holocaust tho some parts already active, peak was when soviet victory was sure and germany wanted to "alter post war".
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Post by Cyan on Jul 25, 2021 3:19:46 GMT
Ok would go through.
Testing now.
First pile as "what they think of us if we agree to this timeline."
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Post by Cyan on Jul 25, 2021 3:39:49 GMT
2nd pile is comparison to "if using current real."
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Post by Cyan on Jul 25, 2021 4:03:58 GMT
Comparison. Red as "this" timeline germany, blue as original germany, also viewing world situation ETC. This looks... promising...
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Post by Cyan on Jul 25, 2021 4:24:54 GMT
hmm..
Third pile is "real world opinion of switching base now."
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Post by Cyan on Jul 25, 2021 4:52:38 GMT
Hmm.
Interesting.
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Post by Cyan on Jul 25, 2021 4:53:05 GMT
These results in 2021 if maintaining partial mob for 20-30 years after end of main fight in europ.
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Post by Cyan on Jul 25, 2021 4:53:22 GMT
Perhaps more, some results indicate until 2021.
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Post by Cyan on Jul 25, 2021 5:41:25 GMT
Fourth pile:
1. Sue for peace, we lost, before bagration, return to "1941 in east and free polish central gov" but maintanance of polish corridor, no puppets, withdrawal of forces from other countries.
2. Step down to partial mob from total immed, spend 6 months recycling army so all remaining units at full str and top of the line equip. Sell spare to allies minors and neutrals as war recomp. Blueprints too.
3. Step from partial to none at jan 1st 1945. Have at least 100 divs, join nato, have divs in fast response groups ready to aid other nato members.
4. Resume policy of "madagascar model" after step down from partial.
5. Join NATO at your leisure, preferrably join EU. Dont reform alliance of minors.
6. Resume "joy" based society at earliest.
7. If below 100 div at full STR. Think cautiously on speed of NATO join.
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